Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production
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Author:  jamiedlover [ Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

Ok, so I know this old guy who works at the theatre in my town (I'm in Canada) and he is a big Rocky Horror nut, as am I. We were talking and discussing all the rocky horror collectibles we have, and I said how I downloaded the audio of the original Belasco production from and was happy, because it's of the entire show and I said its as close as to seeing an incarnation of the original production as we'll get. Then he gave me this evil smile and said that way back in the day (this guy is like 50) he bought an old bootleg VIDEO recording of the original Broadway production at the Belasco. He said its on actual film, so like for a projector and he has it sealed in a film canister stashed away at his house. I nearly died!!! I didn't believe him at first and started to question him about it and he seemed to be able to say how certain parts of it go like and stuff. I haven't got a chance to beg him if he'll let me come over and watch it. I've never heard of that before. Has anyone ever heard of this video recording and is there more of them out there??

Author:  sailorcartman [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:53 am ]
Post subject: 

It makes sense that his would exist on 16mm film and not video. There is only one filmed record of that production known to exist in a library somewhere in new York. It is not accessable by the general public. So, ths my be the only filmed record of this production in the publics hands.

If this isn't bullshit. Tell that guy to get that film out of that can RIGHT AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

Films sealed in cans, especially if they are not in the proper storage conditions, succumb to something called vinegar syndrome. Without getting all technical, when a film develops vinegar syndrome, it will become completely unsuable. A lost cause. Nothing can save it. It will be garbage.

If this guy really does have this film, you need to tell him this right away!! It may already be too late if this film has been sealed for many years. If it does have VS, I am a film collector and so is Kevin Boycik. One of us can at least attempt to get it transferred to video so as to save the perfomance. If it is in early stages of VS, the VS process may be able to at least be slowed down with a special chemical that claims to be able to stop VS (although this has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt yet.) If it has VS, he will be able to tell because it will smell like Vinegar.

This is VERY serious. We need to save this film if it actually exists. Pronto. He needs to know. If he doesn't believe you, tell him to look up vinegar syndrome online. It is very real. MANY film negatives and whatnot have been lost to this VS.

Please , if this film is real, contact me or Kevin so we can help to save this film right away.

John Davey

Author:  jamiedlover [ Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:18 am ]
Post subject: 

Thank you very much. I will tell him right away. I hope it's the truth, and that he'd be willing to let it be copied or something like that. I'll be checking into it. Thanks again

Author:  AngryInch4711 [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 


hell if it's 8mm i'd take it! :shock:
if there's a list, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put me on it!
:D :oops:

*writing the contract for portion of my soul, for sale* :twisted:

Author:  sailorcartman [ Mon May 05, 2008 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 

Any word on this film?

Author:  sailorcartman [ Mon May 19, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

Just checking to see if we have any progress on this film.

Author:  jamiedlover [ Sat May 31, 2008 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

There has been some small progress on it. I see this guy ALOT as I help out at our local theatre and, I always feel like I'm bugging him when I continuously ask him about it, but I got him on the topic of it again, a short while ago and he said

"Actually, I've been thinking of getting it transferred into some kind of digital form and getting it on a DVD so I can watch it more frequently"

I said that I would pay any money for a copy of the DVD and he said he sees how much I love it and he would just give me a copy.

This was a couple weeks ago. And I feel rude and stupid bothering him about it everytime I see him. I would really DIE to get a copy of that and I'd LOVE to share it with anyone. I at first was questioning the truthfullnes of this guy but I'm pretty convinced now. Anyone have any advice on how to proceed with the situation.

Author:  sailorcartman [ Sat May 31, 2008 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

Have you told him the film may be in danger of deteriorating as was explained above? That is the urgent matter at hand in my opinion, finding out if the film is indeed in need of rescue. He has to understand what a significant piece of our history he may own and that it needs to be preserved. All he has to do is smell it and see if it smells like vinegar. That's a good place to start.

Since he seems to have a strong love for the show I would use the "this needs to be preserved, not just for you, but for Rocky Horror fandom in general" approach.

Let him know there are a few here who have the knoledge to help save this print from extinction.

Author:  jamiedlover [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes, I have told him that and he said that the film is completely fine. Sorry about not mentioning that before. I should be seeing him sometime next week, so I'll question him again then.

Author:  sailorcartman [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:44 am ]
Post subject: 

That's good to hear. Please tell him it is MUCH healthier to keep the film out of the can. Keeping it in the can will eventually cause vinegar syndrome. The film base lets out acidic acid that it needs to out gass. Dust and dirt that may result from keeping it out of the can can be cleaned away. Vinegar syndrome, at this time, cannot be reversed.

There is also the option of buying a couple of archival cans from Urbanski Films ( out of Illinios. These are specially made plastic film cans that have ventilation to allow the film to outgass while keeping it free of dust and dirt. I assume this print is on at least two 1600 ft. reels since there is no way under normal circumstances the whole show would fit on one reel. So he would need a can for each reel.

Now, on to the matter of hopefuly getting a copy of this circulating in the community. Keep working on it. This is a great find. Pretty much too good to be true.

If he were to ever sell the film and you did not want it, let me or Kevin B. know, We both have the knowledge to keep it around for generations to come.
Also, we may have resources to get it transferred that you or him may not. Many transfer facitities are very strict about copyright laws. They will not transfer copyrighted work unless the person asking for the work has proof that they own the copyright. One of us may be able to find the services required.
If getting it transfered comes down to an issue of money, let us know. If the conditions were right, some of us fans may pool together to cover costs of the transfer. Most likely in exchange for nothing more than a copy for ourselves.

Just some stuff to keep in your head when dealing with this guy.

If you'd like to contact me privately, give me a call, or whatever. PM me and we'll exchange numbers, e-mail, etc.

Author:  antny [ Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Broadway fim transfer

I for one would definately put in some money to have it transferred to dvd. I've heard it now I want to SEE it!

Remember to see it LIVE!

Author:  jamiedlover [ Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 

Thanks for the info. I'll keep working on it, and let you know if there is any more progress

Author:  sailorcartman [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:15 am ]
Post subject: 

Any word on this?

Author:  jamiedlover [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:09 am ]
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Hello, sorry for taking so long to answer. I actually have some slightly unhappy news. This guy (his name is Michael) got mad at me. I was questioning him about the recording again and he sorta snapped and kinda told me off. He said that if he wants me to see it, or if he wants to get it tranferred to DVD, he'll do it in his time and way. I really would love to see this recording and I just don't know how to proceed with the situation. Anyone have any ideas or what I can do. I just get so frustrated with the thought of that recording being in the same town as me, and he is being very stubborn about letting anyone have access to it. I was beggining to question his truthfulness, but he really isn't someone who would make something up like this. I believe that he has it, but I guess it's not a priority to him right now? So, yes, can anyone think of what can be done?

Author:  sailorcartman [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:18 pm ]
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You just gotta let it ride now. Balls in his court.I wouldn't pester him about it much for a while.

Author:  jamiedlover [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:53 am ]
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ok, you're right. Thanks. Lets just hope he will let something happen with it. A live production of The Rocky Horror Show is going on at the end of October in my town at his theatre, so maybe that will spark his interest

Author:  sailorcartman [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:16 am ]
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Actually, some info I got at the con this past weekend made it seem more plasuable that he really has it.

Appearantly, a film of the Bleasco was listed to be held in the New York Public Library system at one time. The film, of course, had gone missing. Someone probably stole it (if it truly di exist in the first place).

If this story is true (the person who told me is not one to lie about these type of things as far as I know), the person you know could have bought it from someone who stole it, or stole it himself.

Just a little ray of hope for you ( actully for all fo us!)

Author:  jamiedlover [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

That's fantastic! Wow. It's little glimmers of hope like this that keep me going. Well, I'll let everybody know if anything happens.

Author:  timeslip325 [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

too bad this thread went dead...

Author:  antny [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

Any new info on this? Keep us posted!

Author:  jamiedlover [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

Hello, sorry again for just letting this disappear. Well, there is no progress on this really at all. I still see this guy all the time, and every once in a while I will make a joke of it or something, or mention it, and he just brushes it off. He says things like "Maybe I'll let you see it for Rocky's 50th anniversary" and things like that. I have begun to sometimes doubt if he actually has it, because I don't understand why he is so tetchy about letting me, or anyone for that matter, see it. Although, he isn't the type of person to do something like that, and when he told me it wasn't like bull shit. It didn't seem like he was making it up. It actually bothers me quite often. It's all I ever think about whenever I see him. So, as said before I think the ball is in his court, and I keep putting in little reminders every once in a while, and hopefully (if he even has it) he will give in sometime :)

If anything ever somes of it I will be sure to let everybody know immediately. It would be quite an important find; if he ever actually came through.

Author:  joevitus1 [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

I don't buy it. Why? Because I don't think in the pre-videotape age filming the entire show would have been possible. Cameras don't hold that much film. It is suprising what audience members used to get away with in theaters, considering the attempts at heavy restrictions now. And if you do a YouTube search there's a lot of footage of old Broadway shows. But the whole performance from start to finish?

Although Linclon Center used to film entire shows for museum preservation, and was doing so back then. Don't know if they set up multiple cameras for one to start up when another's film was running out, or what.

And remember, the show was a big bomb that barely lasted a month. Hardly anyone went to see it, and even fewer liked it. The idea that someone not only loved it but made a point of seeomg it again with a camera on hand to preserve it? A little hard to believe.

Of course, I'd love to be wrong. :)

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if Lou Adler made some home movies at the Belasco or the Roxy. Backstage, during rehearsals, or maybe some scenes in performance. Would be wonderful if he did.

Author:  timeslip325 [ Sun May 30, 2010 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

well, now - let us not forget that there IS a bootleg floating around (which i've seen and own) of the obc of A Chorus Line in 1975 - and it's the entire show - and it's got multiple camera angles (which include close-ups). so, dont doubt it - this is quite possible! only downside to it is, ACL is in black & white - and, altho i'd take the obc Rocky Horror Show in b&w... it's sad to think we'd miss out on the full colour! ;)

also, i thought i remembered reading something about there being footage out there of rehearsing at the Roxy that was shot with someone's home camera - but, it's just about a min and a half...

Author:  joevitus1 [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

Had no idea about the bootleg Chorus Line. Pretty cool.

Author:  timeslip325 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Live Video Fliming of Belasco Production

joevitus1 wrote:
Had no idea about the bootleg Chorus Line. Pretty cool.

we must find our hope somewhere, yes? :nod:

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